Curse

Lanier · Jul 13, 2010, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Test Me

PS: Actually it's worse than discord, because heroes can't (ab)use it.

Wrong. Hero use ER very, very well in infuse/protter builds.

Xiaquin · Jul 13, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Wrong. Hero use ER very, very well in infuse/protter builds.

When they reapply it. A problem I ran into was when it went down, Sousuke didn't care about energy, and spammed spells until it was gone. In the heat of battle he didn't reapply ER, and we almost died. I wouldn't call it that great if I have to help manage it.

UnChosen · Jul 13, 2010, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Wrong. Hero use ER very, very well in infuse/protter builds.

Heroes does not know how to reserve/use Glyph of Swiftness before using ER, meaning that you have to constantly monitor the hero and activate ER yourself. Frankly, I'd rather spend my concentration microing heroes out of deadly AoE. Heroes also does not know how to STOP when their ER gets stripped, nor do they know that reapplying ER is first priority when it expires.

NerfHerder · Jul 13, 2010, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Wrong. Hero use ER very, very well in infuse/protter builds.

Im going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. Without microing, heros can let you down at the wrong time when using ER. Personally, id rather have a N/Rt or Monk hero heal me. I would only trust a hero with orders cuz, if that goes down it wont kill you.

Lanier · Jul 13, 2010, 01:44 PM // 13:44

I guess im just going to have to disagree with you all then. I have been using an ER protter since i started playing again a couple months ago and he never leaves my team. Although he doesn't know to use ER with Glyph of swiftness, i have found that this doesn't really matter as he tends to keep up ER as often as possible and with a 20% enchanting mod, he keeps it up almost all the time. I would never, ever substitute a rit, necro, or monk for him. Here is what i use:

Ether Renewal
Infuse Health
Shield Guardian/Shield of Absorption
Spirit Bond
Protective Spirit
Aegis
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement (microed onto him at the beginning of an area)

Like i said, i have extensively used this build on my zhed and vanquished many, many areas with him. Never have i had energy problems, and the only microing i did was placing life attunement on him at the beginning of areas.

Riot Narita · Jul 13, 2010, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Wrong. Hero use ER very, very well in infuse/protter builds.

The guy said heroes can't abuse it, and I'd say he was right. Yes, heroes can use an ER build "very well" (though personally I'd call them "OK", no more)... but they can't do anything like the kind of abuse that a human is capable of - tons of bonds, glyph to maintain ER, spell spam to maintain their own health/energy.

I echo what Xiaquin said. I've had my ER heroes make a royal f***up many times, failing to maintain/recast ER... and sometimes failing to infuse even when they have plenty of time/energy/health/ER to do it. I can't rely on an ER hero alone, for heals.

HigherMinion · Jul 13, 2010, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I too used to use an almost identical build, but if you can't beat a mob down in 24 seconds, you'll be dead the second after ER ends. It required more patience and pulling, I think.

Karate Jesus · Jul 13, 2010, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Im going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. Without microing, heros can let you down at the wrong time when using ER. Personally, id rather have a N/Rt or Monk hero heal me. I would only trust a hero with orders cuz, if that goes down it wont kill you.

Derp? Heroes run the ER Prot build really, really well if you run the right one. Don't give the hero dismiss condition, RoF, or GoS (nothing they're terrible with) and they are spectacular with the build.

And try an enchanting spear and an offhand. For some reason, the AI seems to use the skills more appropriately with a caster spear (I've tested this countless times and have no idea why it works).

While getting Guardian of Cantha, Elona, and Tyria I monitored Vekk's energy and I never once saw him slip below 50%.

EDIT: This build is what I'm talking about. It even notes not to use Dismiss Condition on heroes. They spam it like crazy. They also spam infuse on minions, btw, but I've still never seen my Vekk has problems with energy.

NerfHerder · Jul 13, 2010, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Ok, its not the crappy hero AI, it was the build I was using. You win.

Regardless of how AI uses ER, it wont change my mind. ER should stay until Eles get something better, and even then it should only be tweaked and not smiters boon'd.

Karate Jesus · Jul 13, 2010, 05:37 PM // 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Ok, its not the crappy hero AI, it was the build I was using. You win.

Regardless of how AI uses ER, it wont change my mind. ER should stay until Eles get something better, and even then it should only be tweaked and not smiters boon'd.

I agree. To be honest, even from a hero standpoint, it's still not insanely overpowered. Heroes can't do the bonds as well as players, heroes can't GoS, heroes can't use GDW, etc.

The skill should definitely stick around. Of course, unless Anet plans on giving Eles other options.

Voodoo Rage · Jul 13, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Ok, its not the crappy hero AI, it was the build I was using. You win.

Lol, needs more Frenzy

Paux · Jul 15, 2010, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Ether Renewal is fine.

Carinae · Jul 16, 2010, 01:54 AM // 01:54

This is one of the few cases where an OP skill is OK. An ER-Prot hero is a strong and capable hero, and one that actually allow EVERYONE to play their respective class....as their class, rather than wonky strategies or overloaded defenses. This is advantageous particularly since the 'other' healer class, monks, are HEAVILY energy restricted due to PvP mathematical balance. That's always been the problem with Monk heroes, energy, and that's why they don't make good HM healers. They aren't balanced for it. Notice ER is PvE only? They are making it up to us.

The ER-Prot doesn't have this problem at all but still doesn't make you invulnerable. You can still die, even if his Blue Bar is full. In HM and on Master Difficulty quests, ERs are perfect. Not too strong, not too weak.

In short: ER is an enabling skill, not an abusive one.